September 25, 2009

ስለ “ጥንተ አብሶ ጉዳይ” የተዘጋጀ ጽሑፍ

(ደጀ ሰላም፤ ሰፕቴምበር 25/2009)፦
በካንሳስ ሲቲ ካንሳስ የምትገኘዉ "የደብረ ሣህል መድኀኔዓለም" የኢ/ኦ/ተ/ አጥቢያ ቤተ ክርስቲያን በነገረ ሃይማኖት ምክንያት ያላትን ጥያቄ ወደ ኮፕት ቤተ ክርስቲያን ማመልከቻ ማስገባቷን፣ ማመልከቻውም መልስ ይዞ በመምጣቱ ስብሰባ መጥራቷን” መዘገባችን ይታወሳል። ይህ ከኢትዮጵያ ቤተ ክርስቲያን ነገረ-ሃይማኖት አስተምህሮ ውጪ የሆነውና “እመቤታችን ጥንተ አብሶ አለባት” የሚለው ጥያቄ ከግብጽ ፓትርያርክ ተልከው መጡ በተባሉ ኤርትራዊ ጳጳስ “ትክክል ነው፤ እመቤታችን ጥንተ አብሶ አለባት” መባሉ ከተዘገበ ወዲህ ይህንን የሚቃወም የተለያየ አስተያየት በመደመጥ ላይ ነው።
To the editor of DejeSelam blog,
First, I greet you by saying Happy Ethiopian New year (Enqutatash).
Please find attached an ARTICLE which would be of interest to fellow Ethiopians. I will be most obliged if you can post it on your website.
Kind Regards,
M G Selassie


34 comments:

Zetikat said...

To all Orthodox Christians:

I think we're taking the Mariology issue too far without understanding the core matter. First of all, the question should be when is St. Mary is freed or exempted from the original sin. Our church says she is free from it from the time of conception. All oriental churches teach that she is exempted from it during the period of annunciation. Please do mind that it didn't mean the annunciation exempted her. We have to differentiate also, what does the original sin mean? We have the "Mergeme Siga" and "Mergeme nefis". Our Mariology support that she is free from both. Our problem is there isn't any evidence from the teaching of the early fathers about this matter ( esp. before 451). I think our Mariology shouldn't be nationalized, it should correspond to the early teaching of the church. As an isolated church for a long time, we need to dig deep into the teaching of the early Christians about this matter before drawing conclusively.We should just rely on our own scholars articles. I am sure our own scholars opinion need to be drawn from the early Christians teaching.

Admasu said...

መሪጌታ ቃለህይወት ያሰማልን፡፡ እንደዚህ ያሉ አባቶችን አግዚአብሔር አያሳጣን፡፡ ግብፃውያኑን አትፍረዱባቸው ለብዙ ዘመናት አንዴ በአርዮሰውያን ሌላ ጊዜ በእስላሞች በደረሰባቸው መከራ ብዙ የቀደሙ አባቶቻቸውን ትምህርት የያዙ መጻህፍት ጠፍተውባቸዋል፡፡ ከ14ቱ የቅዳሴ መጻሕፈት 12ቱ ጠፍቶባቸው ኢትዮጵያውያን አባቶቻችን በብዙ ተጋድሎ ስላቆዩት መልሰው ያስተረጎሙት ከግእዝ ቅጂው እንደሆነ ብዙዋቻችን አናውቅም፡፡ ግብረ ህማማትንም እንዲሁ፡፡ እኛም ይህ እንዳይገጥመን መጠንቀቅ መንቃት ይጠበቅብናል፡፡ ቅዱስ ቄርሎስ ግብዊ ስለሆነ የቄርሎስን ትምህርት የሚያውቁት እነሱ ናቸው ብለን እንዳንሳሳት፡፡ የሊቃውነቱ ትምህርት በየአድባራቱና ገዳማቱ ባሉ የአብነት ትምህርት ቤቶች ውስጥ ይተረካል ይተረጎማል፡፡ እነርሱ ናቸው ትምህርቱን ከኛ ዘመን ያደረሱት፡፡ ይልቅ የሊቃውንቱ መፍለቂያ የሆኑት የአብነት ትምህርት ቤቶች አሁን ባጋጠማቸው ችግር ምክንያት ጨርሰው እንዳየጠፉ የአቅማችንን ያህል ማድረግ ቸል አንበል፡፡ መጽሐፍቶቻችንንና ሌሎች ቅርሶቻችንን እንዳይሰርቁን ነጣቂዎችን ነቅተን እንጠብቅ፡፡ በተረፈ ኢትዮጵያ ታቦተ ጽዮንን ግማደ መስቀሉንና መጽሐፈ ሄኖክን የመሳሰሉ ታላላቅ ሀብታትን ጠብቃ የኖረች መንፈሳዊት ግምጃ ቤት ናት፡፡ ልብ ያለው የሚበጀውን ይገበይባታል፡፡
አምላከ ቅዱሳን የቸርነቱን ስራ ይስራልን፡፡
አድማሱ ነኝ፡፡

Anonymous said...

Dear Fellow Orthodox Tewahido Christians,

I would like to thank Merigeta Gebreselassie for the article."Kale Hiwot Yasemalen".

The article teaches us, about "Saint Mary-The Mother of GOD", in detail supported by evidence both from the bible and other religious books, which the teaching of our church is based on. (Most of these books actually predate 451AD unlike one commentator)

I beleive the teaching in the article is fundamental in understanding our church's stand in this issue. And therefore every Orthodox Tewahedo Christians should have the access to read and understand it.
I hope Dejeselam will find a way to make this article available for the wider public.

Selam,

ኢትዮጵየዊ said...

ከ2000 ዓመታት በኋላ እንዲህ ዓይነት ጥያቄ መነሳቱ እጅግ የሚገርምና የሚያሳዝን ነው።
ምነው የዘንዶው ጥያቄ በእመቤታችን ላይ በየአቅጣጫው በረታ!?። ማርያም እኮ እንደኛ ሰው ናት ለሚለው የመናፍቃን ጥያቄ ውዥንብር የፈጠረባቸው ሰዎች አዎ ናት እንዲያውም የአዳም ኃጢአት ነበረባት ብለው ለመመለስ ካልሆነ በስተቀር ጥያቄው ከተመለሰ 2000 ዓመታት ያለፈው በመሆኑ መነሳት አልነበረበትም።

በተጨማሪም እንደኔ አመለካከት ስለ ነገረ ሃይማኖት ከኢትዮጵያውያን የትሻለ የሚኖር አይመስለኝም። ምክንያቱም ሌሎች በተለያየ ምክንያት መሠረታቸውን ጥለዋልና። ግብጻዊያንም ቢሆኑ ለቤተክርስቲያናቸው በመቆርቆር ካልሆነ ከኢትዮጵያዊያን የተሻለ እውቀት አይኖራቸውም። ጠይቄ ነው የካድሁት ቢሉ መልስ አይሆንም ምክንያት አያድንምና።


መርጌታ እግዚአብሔር ይስጥዎት። የሚያረካ ጽሑፍ ነው።

Anonymous said...

I don't want to draw myself into this hairsplitting issue. But Christianity is not about Ethiopianism. Be careful not to sound like Jesus was born in Ethiopia.

Anonymous said...

So keep silent!

Anonymous said...

What happened to you the last anonymous? You are “መቀባጠሪንግ”፡፡ እስቲ አሁን ስለድንግል ማርያም ነው እንጂ ስለኢየሱስ ኢትዮጵያ ውስጥ መወለድ ያወራ አለ? ወይስ ኢትዮጵያ የድንግል አሥራት መሆኑዋን መንፈስ ቅዱስ ሳትወድ በግድ እያስመሰከረህ ይሆን? ስለድንግል በተወራበት ፖስት ሥር ስለኢትዮጵያ የደነጎርከው?

Anonymous said...

It is so far of the truth history,

Our fathers have arrange all of our fith,

tad said...

We don't have any doctrinal or dogmatic difference with our sister coptic church. You can debate and argue on some silly issues like laybet and tachbet tirguames. There are a lot of areas where our liqaunt differ,but that didn't make one less orthodox. They knew where not to differ. But now adays there are a lot of little knowledges here and there and that everybody feels that he is a theologian. Please refrain from making wrong analysis and radicalize our faith.

ZeDebre said...

ድንግል፡ማርያም፡ከሱራፌልና፡ኪሩቤል፡
የበለጠች፣በሥላሤዎች፡ተመርጣ፡የወልድ፡
ማደርያ፡የሆነች፣ሱራፌልና፡ኪሩቤል፡የማያ
ዩትን፡በሆዷ፡ተሸክማ፡የወለደች፣ጡቷን፡አ
ጥብታ፡ያሳደገችን፣በምሥጢረ፡ቃና፡ዘገሊላ፡
በሥላሤዎች፡ዘንድ፡ያላትን፡ክብርና፡መደ
መጥ፡/አማላጅነት/የታደለች፡የእግዚአብሔ
ር፡ማደርያ//..."ሰው፡ሁሉ፡እናታችን፡ጽዮ
ን፡ይላል"!

ዛሬ፡የክፉው፡ዘመን፡ላይ፡በመሆኑ፣የእግዚአብ
ሔርን፡ማደርያ፡መጋፋትና፡ፀረ፡ማርያምነት፡
በኛም፡አገር፡በገሃድ፡እየተገለጠ፡ነው።
"ቀሲስ"አስተርአየና፡ግብጾች፡በፍልሰታ፡የሱባ
ዔ፡ወቅት፡የተፈጸመው፡የአመፅና፡ክህደት፡ጉባዔ፡
ለጥፋት፡ጎዳና፡ከመጥረግ፡ባሻገር፣አንዳችም፡ተቀ
ባይነት፡በምድረ፡ተዋህዶ፡አይኖረውም።

በመሪጌታ፡ገብረ፡ሥላሤ፡የተሰጠው፡ትምህርት፡
በተባረኩ፡የሚደመጥ፡ሲሆን፣አመፅ፡ለነገሠባቸው፡
ደግሞ፡የባዶነታቸውን፡መረጃ፡ማመላከቻ፡ነው።
መሪጌታ፡የተዋህዶን፡ርትዕት፡ሃይማኖትነት፡በሚ
ገባ፡ገልጸውታል፤አብራርተውታል፤በማይናጋው፡
የክርስቶስ፡መስቀል፡ላይ፡የተመሠረተ፡እምነት፡
በከሃዲያን፡ውዥንብርና፡ጩኽት፡የማይፈታ፡መ
ሆኑን፡አረጋግጠዋል።

ለድንግል፡ማርያም፡ክብርና፡ምሥጋና!
መድኃኔ፡ዓለም፡ቤተ፡ተዋህዶ፡ክርስቲያ
ናችንን፡ይጠብቅልን!አሜን።

ዘደብረ፡ሊባኖስ፡ነኝ።

Anonymous said...

I don't want to comment on the the main issue" original sin" but what made to comment here after reading Merigeta Gebreselassieis arrticle is that I am not comfortable with is approach of critisizing our sister coptic church especially pop shinoda(The only holly person we have at this critical time, comparing with our pops which ever of the two). Merigeta don't forget Jesus was crucified for the whole world, not only for Ethiopia.Politics has nothing to with Christianity(Of Ethiopias and Egypt). Please Merigeta Gebreselassie, your article sounds good, but don't hate your only sister church in this world, that is not christanity, think broadly as much as you can. Don't mix Ethiopianism and Egyptianism with this thing.
How could this be possible to hate our sister copitic church(with the same dogma) while we are facing so many enemeis of our chruch(Muslim, protestant,etc) instead of consolidating our unity to overcome our common enemies?
what do you feel about this Merigeta Gebreselassie?

Anonymous said...

Egyptians are ready to destroy whatever is Ethiopian Christian dogma or Canon; and if possible, they will destroy us and take the land, Abay,.. whatever! You name it.

Go to tasbeha.org (a Coptic forum) and enter keyword "Ethiopia". You will see many posts which talk about Ethiopia. You will see how the Copts make fun of the story of Sheba and Solomon, the presence of the Ark of Moses, the "Yaredawi zema" which they call "dancing in front of the altar" (they equate it with a sin. One of the Copts who consider it that way is Pope Shenouda himself)... and many others.
More importantly, you will see how they label the Ethiopian 14 liturgies as "theologically wrong" and accept only three of them because "they are not Ethiopian". They believe "if something has its origin in Ethiopia, we don't use it because it may have theological mistake" This is their formula.

It is the Copts that are obsessed with haterade towards Ethiopians as people and Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church both theologically and canonically. But, we keep defending them; and groom their name...

We don't deserve God's mercy because we, ourselves, have hated what belongs to us; and have listened to others. How can God forgive us and help us? There is no way!

Zetikat said...

Please let us not consider the copts as the head of the church of Christ, It is Christ himself who is the head. The have done so many embarrassing things that are completely non-Christian before and now, even at our age. The Holy Synod of EOTC must speak up on such matter and outline the church teaching clearly. Why don't we hear anything from the body that is in charge of guarding the teaching of the church?

Anonymous said...

While I don't like to argue about the very complex and hairsplitting issue of original sin on this blog,I am afraid some of you are falling in to the short sighted theology of Abba Tesfa,Aleqa Ayalew and Nibure ED Ermias.

Anonymous said...

Zetikat;
Don't think we have a lot of embarrasing things in our books? Are you going to tell me that we have Holy Synod?,which is being led by Abay Tsehaye?

Anonymous said...

There are people who always like to talk about differences and separations.Dogmatically and doctrinally EOC and Coptic churches are inseparable.Do we have some historical misunderstanding? Yes we do. We are even having some difficulties among our Tigray,Gonder and Shoa clergies.Let us give enough space and time for some of the issues to settle. Please don't fan differences. Let us work on our Synod mess, if we could.

Anonymous said...

there is dogmatic difference between Copts and EOTC.

Read the article which is posted up here.

There is a difference in Mystery of Trinity. We can never be one if we differ in Mariology and Mystery of Trinity. Period!

Anonymous said...

እረ ለመሆኑ ማበረ ቅዱሳን ማበረ ምናምን ለምን ያስፈልጋል ?

ለምን ሁሉም አማኝ ማለትም
ቄሱም በቄስነቱ
ሰንብተ ተማሪዎችም በዚያው አገልግሎታቸው
ምመናኑም በምመናነንታቸው
ኮሚቴዎችም በየኮሚቴነታቸው በያሉበት አጥቢያቸው አያገለግሉም ?

ማህበረ እገሌ ወገሌ እያሉ ቤተ ክርስቲያንን መከፋፈል ለምን አስፈለገ ?

እንደኔ እንደኔ : በግለሰቦች የሚመሩ ማህበራት ሁሉ ፈራርሰው
ሁሉም አሁን ባለው የቤተ ክርርስቲያን መዋቅር ውስጥ ተካተው በያሉበት አጥቢያ ቢያገለግሉ ለቤተ ክርስቲያን አንድነት የሚጠቅም ይመስለኛል

አለበለዚያ ግን የማህበር ደጋፊና ተቃዋሚ በመባባል እየተነቃቀፉ : ለመልካም ጊዜ የሚጠቅመውን ጊዜ በጭቅጭቅ ማሳለፍ ተገቢ አይደለም ባይ ነኝ

መበረቅዱሳኖችም እኮ ሳያስቡትና ሳይፈልጉት ከብዙ አባቶችና ምመናን ጋር እየተጋጩ : የሚቃወማቸውን ሁሉ በደፈናው ተሀድሶ ምናምን የሚል ተቀጥያ እየለጠፉ የመደዳ ጥላቻና የማይፈለግ ቡድን ውስጥ እየገቡ ናቸው

የዚህ መጨረሻ ደግሞ ጥሩ ወዳልሆነ የእርስ በእርስ መበታተን ያመራናል

Anonymous said...

Only those who have other
interestshave problem with Mahibere Qidusan. No one
who is a devout Tewahedo
Orthodox Christian has any question in this regard.

Only he who is "Yazagn Qibie Angwach" continues to create
a bogus problem, with the intent of erroding the power of our church structures.

Mahibere Qudusan is one of the best functioning structures which we have in these critical times!

We know that alien forces see Mahibere Qidusan as a roadblock
to their subversive and
destructive project against
our Tewahedo Orthodox Faith and
Church.
The intigues of the Copts against our church, started more than a thausand six hundred years ago. We have done more good to them than they ever have even though of doing the same to us. On the contrary, we have suffered at their hands, and with their connivance, at the hands of the Egyptian Pashias, in Ethiopia, in Egypt, and in Jerusalem. One must only study the history of how much we Ethiopioans have been tolerant and had continued to consider them
as a "sister" Church. The Cpts never wanted that we have our own
patriarchate and Bishops. They run so quick to recognize the division of our church and created a "patriarchate" in "Eritrea". The copts are working with the Mubarek regime to make sure that we Ethiopians don't ever get the legal recognition of our ownership of Deir Sultan, which is even attested by the Ottoman rulers of Jerusalem at the time. One can go on and on! We don't wish the Copts
bad! We actually feel sad about their difficult conditions in Egypt! No Ethiopian will cry for Egypt, unless he or she is ignorant of history! I wouldn't even talk here about Boutos Gali, who was more than ready to see Ethiopia sliced to pieces, to please the Egyptian regime!

Those who bedevil the role of politics in history, are bedeviling our conscious engagement to safeguard the
safty and continued existence
of our Tewahedo Orthodox Church and our Motherland Ethiopia!

This is a fact of life in the history of christianity all
over the world! To say "politics plays no role" is not only to be ignorant of history, but more importantly to deny role of the regime in Ethiopia in destabilizing the Synodos in
order to control it and make it
a tool for it's agenda! What do you think Abay Tsehaye is doing
at the Synodos?! He wasn' there
to protect and defend the interests of our church! We have enough facts that it is on the contrary! Isn't it astonishing thoat those who play politics
are saying there shpould be "no politics" in the church?!! Fact
is the mission of the church is the evengelium of Jesus Christ!
No question about that! But let
us never forget that this work
is being done not in a vacuum. We live in the world of Polities which are administered by politics and politicians!
And no christian church can avoid to be conscious of this in order to advance its interests!

Abune Tekle Haimanot knew that! Abune Petros knew that! To mention just a few examples from our history!

God Bless Mahibere Qidusan!

May The Good Lord Protect and defend Ethiopia and our Tewahedo Church!

Samuel ZeAsebot

Anonymous said...

Let us not forget that why our fathers were fighting against one another during Zemene Mesafint era. One Kibat,one Tsega and The other Kara. Every thing almost settled today. Even our prominent theologians like Aleqa Kidanewold,Aleqa Taye,Arat Ayna Goshu were not in line with most of the then theologians. Why make every little differences,misunderstandings...religion.Little knowledge is dangerous. Those of us who are with little knowledge should be patient. One of the accusations on His Holiness Abune Theofilos was that he was too close to coptic church. I know there are some hiden hands of those Abune Theofilos killers going here and there looking for some blood to shade one more time.Please don't destroy our EOC.

zoma said...

It is really unfortunate that the editors ignored the report of the meeting that was sent to them regarding the meeting held in Kansas on 08/15/09. However, no time was wasted in posting the article by Meri Geta GebreSelassie today. As a general rule, an editor should not play into his or her own bias. On the other hand, I also know that they have a right to their opinion in the matter.

I am happy to see Meri Geta’s article posted on your blog and other media outlets. I hope this will create an open, civil and honest dialogue in the coming days. However for now, I would like to point out some key facts to help in the discussion:

1. First of all, the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church is one of the Oriental Churches. These churches have an identical stand and belief when it comes to Dogma. This is the reason why they are called sister churches. One can not pick and choose any particular doctrine over the others and claim that, that doctrine belongs ONLY to a particular church. Please see the protocol that was signed by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church on 2008. (www.medhanialemeotcks.org)

2. All Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches believe and teaches that the Blessed Virgin Mary was cleansed from the Original Sin by the Holy Spirit during the Annunciation.

3.The ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH is the only church who believes and teaches this Doctrine (The Blessed Virgin Mary is exempted from Original Sin at the time of Conception in her mother womb...)which is also known as the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION which became a ROMAN CATHOLIC DOGMA IN 1854.

4. All Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches denounce and reject the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. Also, just imagine, the year 1854 is only 155 years ago. However, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church along with its other sister Oriental Churches existed for about 2000 years with the true Doctrine.

5. On the Article, the author (Meri Geta) tries to undermine the Coptic Church along its Patriarch Pope Shenouda III. Well, guess what, the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church Current Patriarch Abune Paulos also rejects the Immaculate Conception Doctrine and affirms in the book that he wrote that the Blessed Virgin Mary was born with Original Sin. (See the book and more @, www.medhanialemeotcks.org). It is noting but to be a hypocrite for the Meri Geta & others to denounce Kesis Asteray and the Medihanialem EOTC members in Kansas for rejecting the ROMAN CATHOLIC DOGMA and defending the true Orthodox doctrine, while the Patriarch himself had written about it.

6. The Video from the Kansas conference will be posted very soon for all to see and learn. In regards to the article by Meri-Geta, I am glad he wrote it. This will create an opportunity for many and in particular for the Medihanialem EOTC in Kansas to point out the fallacy of his arguments point by point with respect and civility.




Note to all: It is very commendable for anyone to defend his/her faith. However it is by far more important to protect and preserve the one and the only true Orthodox CREED that we all chant during church service.
In it, we say “We believe in one holy and apostolic Church” The reason I mention this is because, some of us seem to undermine the Oneness of the Oriental Churches just to justify our belief. This is wrong and very dangerous. It is very important for everyone to do a little research about, what the other Oriental Orthodox churches stand is on this matter.

One holy and apostolic Church= this refers to the Oriental Orthodox Churches.

Thank you,

tad said...

Zoma;
You can only have yours kind of debate when you debate just faith,not nationalism.People here wants to mix nationalism with orthodoxy.They think Patriarch Abune Basilios is Holy,but Patriarch Kerilos, the one who ordained Basilios, is unorthodox.,because it happend to be Basilios from Debrelibanos and Kerilos from Egypt.

Anonymous said...

"Zoma" your views to justify the doctrines advanced by "qesiss"
Asteraye are now outside the realm of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

We know you are trying to "settle some scores" here, but you are out of place.

"qesis Asteraye was admonished by two Ethiopian Bishops to stop his antagonizing tresspasses against the doctrines of the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church.
He has been accusing us of being against his so-called "eastern" doctrine. None of us shall be intimidated by this shoddy argument.

We Ethiopians know all the mentioned churches and respect them. After all we are all
christians. The point here is not whether these churches are identical with us or not.

Nothing should be used in our inter-church relations to be abusive against us and advance the viewpoints which we Ethiopian Orthodox Christians do not subscribe to.

It is a shame that even
"catholicism" is being brought here to scandalize the Ethiopian church doctrine. Our worship and faith in God's power to bless his dwelling placeis at the heart of the teaching of our church as exibited in the works of St. Yared and many other church fathers.

"Qesis" Asteraye has now brought himself officially outside the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church! That is his choice. He has gone against the advice of many far and wide!
He has rebelled against the admonishments of Papasats and Liqawinte Bete Kristian.His views and references to the views of "aba" Paulos do not represent the teachings of our church on the Holliness of EgziEtine Mariam.

He Has taken his "case" to Egypt and gotten an Egyptian "verdict". Well that is it, for him and his associates.

The Highest Judge for our Tewahedo Orthodox Church is The Lord Jesus Christ and not an Egyptian "court"!

And more over Why wage war against the Blessed Mother of Jesus Christ in the name of "justifying" a "doctrine" to which our church does not subscribe?!

We have other problems in Ethiopia not to waste our time on issues of interest to to "qesis" Asteraye and his Egyptian viewpoints!

What is "good" for Egypt is not necessarily good for Ethiopia! So is it also on this reprehensible "doctrinal" accusation against Nitsehet Dingil Mariam and us Tewahedo Orthodox Ethiopians!

"qesis" Asteraye is now with the Egyptian church. That is his free choice.

We say good bye, and may peace be with you.

+++++

Anonymous said...

Qesis Asteaye admonished by two bishops....laughable,who are those bishops/Abba Mathias? Who was admonished himself before the weyane tanks rolled in to
arat kilo.

Anonymous said...

"We have other problems in Ethiopia not to waste our time on issues of interest to "qesis" Asteraye and his Egyptian viewpoints!

What is "good" for Egypt is not necessarily good for Ethiopia! So is it also on this reprehensible "doctrinal" accusation against Nitsehet Dingil Mariam and us Tewahedo Orthodox Ethiopians!

"qesis" Asteraye is now with the Egyptian church. That is his free choice.

We say good bye, and may peace be with you."!!!

+++++

zoma said...

Anonymous, thank you for your comments and I would also like to address your remarks as follows.

Yoy said:

"Zoma" your views to justify the doctrines advanced by "qesiss"
Asteraye are now outside the realm of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

First and for most Kesis Asteray has no personal Doctrine to advance as you implied above. In fact, rejecting the so called ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRINE known as the Immaculate Conception is NOT Kesis Astraye’s personal issue but it belong to millions of Orthodox around the world including myself. However, your calculated and deliberate approach to isolate Kesis Asteray as an extreme fringe element out side the realm of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church is baseless.

You said:

We know you are trying to "settle some scores" here, but you are out of place.
I really do not know what score you are talking about. I would be more than happy to respond if you care to be specific. In fact, this is not a game for many of us.

You said:

"qesis Asteraye was admonished by two Ethiopian Bishops to stop his antagonizing tresspasses against the doctrines of the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church.
I know personally what Abune Mattias did to Kesis Asteray. I was there,I do not consider it for a second as an admonishment but rather an honor for Kesis. He stood with confidence and full of evidence to defend the true Orthodox doctrine and flatly rejected the heritic dogma of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. In fact, the late Abune Yisaqe rejected the measure taken by Abune Mattias and conveyed a church Scholars (Liqawint) council meeting at St. Mary EOTC in Washington D.C. Unanimously, the meeting concluded that Kesis Asteraye belife and teaching was the true teaching of the church. In fact the council sent the copy of the resolution to the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church Synod in Ethiopia. Please see the whole document @ (www.medhanialemeotcks.org).

zoma said...

Anonymous, thank you for your comments and I would also like to address your remarks as follows.

However, I have no idea who the Second Bishop you are talking about. This is news to me. Could you please be more specific like name of the Bishop and the issue.

You also Said:
He has been accusing us of being against his so-called "eastern" doctrine. None of us shall be intimidated by this shoddy argument.

Could you be more specific when you said “ US” this refer to who? And what eastern doctrine you are referring.

You said:
We Ethiopians know all the mentioned churches and respect them. After all we are all
christians.

I agrre, Next you said:
The point here is not whether these churches are identical with us or not.

Here you are completely wrong. It looks to me that you and a lot of other people need to do a little research about what the Oriental Orthodox churches stand is on this matter and where our church fits in all this.
In fact it is very essential for an Orthodox churches in General and for an Oriental Orthoox churches in particular to be identical with one another when it comes to DOGMA. If It was not for this check and balance structure within the sister churches, we would have not been the one holy and apostolic Church that we proudly claim today, and survived for so long. This is the reason why the Roman Chatolic church comes up with new doctrines almost every century. Case and point, The IMMACULATE CONCEPTION in 1854.

This is exactly why I said on my previous posting “It is very commendable for anyone to defend his/her faith. However it is by far more important to protect and preserve the one and the only true Orthodox CREED that we all chant during church service.
In it, we say “We believe in one holy and apostolic Church” The reason I mention this is because, some of us seem to undermine the Oneness of the Oriental Churches just to justify our belief. This is wrong and very dangerous.

You Said:

Nothing should be used in our inter-church relations to be abusive against us and advance the viewpoints which we Ethiopian Orthodox Christians do not subscribe to.
No Church is abusive to our Church or any other Church. I really do not know why you said that. Once again, when it comes to the Oriental Churches, there is no such a DOGMA that subscribes only to one church. They are all identical, period.

Anonymous said...

It seems to me that every merigeta and Geez speaker wants to have his own doctrine. But that is not how it goes. Some of MK seniors wants to undermine the coptic church while they made a lot of money from the translations of Abune Shenouda and other coptic fathers' publications.MK was advised to be cautious when it stood behind Abba Paulos for 17 yrs, but now it is paying the price. I think they are in the same cycle of denial on the doctrine of coptic church until the time comes and they regret again. MK please come clean once and for all and you don't need to appologize now and then.
May God give you the courage to stand firm.

Anonymous said...

MK wasn't and isn't following Abba Paulos but the One Holy Synod of ETOC in Addis.Abba Paulos and Holy Synod are different.second,'Qesis' Asteraye says that the Eastern end Oriental Churches are identical to EOTC;Please I know them we have Dogmatic and Canon differences.The present day Coptic s and Eastern Churches have differences with their predecessors.Ex;Eastern Orthodox Churches believe and teach the heretic teaching of two natures of Christ.With Egyptians;we have difference in Holy Trinity.
The other point is that we don't blame all of teaching of Catholics who believe in intercession of Saints,Divinity of Christ,etc.Therefore,Asteraye,you insult Saint Mary.Goodbye to other Churches.I have greatly satisfied by the answer of Merigeta Gebre Sellasse who shows us that your teaching with your friends is heretic

Anonymous said...

To the last anon:
If you are not moved by emotions,please respond to me what the late Abba Gorgorious mean when he said "the four oriental churches,Coptic,EOC,Syrian,Armenian,Indian,don't have dogmatic differences,but there are people who want to separate us".
Thanks

zoma said...

The more I read what some people under the name “Anonymous” write; I really start worrying more about the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church future. When we see priests like Meri-geta Gebreselasie write a total fabrication by saying that the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church have some differences when it comes to Holy Trinity and when this lie propagated and spread by people like “Anonymous” as fact. This is troubling. This systematic and deliberate distortion of our true church identity and their assault on the oneness of the Oriental churches should not be taken lightly. This shows how some people go to such an extent to hold on to their misguided belief and try to insert their heretic ROMAN CHATOLIC DOGAM into our holy Church.
Not only is this, but to wage a smear campaign against on a true unwavering Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo priest Qesis Asteray by deliberately distorting the truth and by fabricating a lie is despicable. For instance, “Anonymous” said “'Qesis' Asteraye says that the Eastern and Oriental Churches are identical to EOTC” This is noting but a lie. Qesis Asteray never said that. What he said was, the Eastern Orthodox Churches and the Oriental Orthodox Churches (which includes the EOTC) have the same doctrine in regard to that, “The Blessed Virgin Mary was conceived with Original Sin. They also unanimously reject the heretic ROMAN CATHOLIC DOGMA known as the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION.

continue on next posting!

zoma said...

Continued...
While this is the fact and the true Orthodox doctrine, distorting the fact and spreading false rumors won’t cut it. It simply shows how shallow an argument you forwarded and how severely ignorant or deficient you are when it comes to the Church doctrine.
All of a sudden you tried to separate Patriarch Paulos and the Holy Synod. Why now? Is it because of…..?
• The recent public drama that was unfolded in front of the whole world between the Patriarch and some members of the Holy Synod.
• The recent clash between MK and the church Senbet Ttimihirt Bet administration in which the Patriarch made significant accusations against MK in front of the whole world accompanied by some Holy Synod members. (Note: whether the accusation by the Patriarch is true or false I do not know.)
• The Complaint that the Debre Shael Medhanialem EOTC in Kansas State along the following Washington D.C area Mahibere Kahinat Clergies submitted to the Holy Synod in Addis Abeba, the Patriarch office and the Liqawint Gubbaye, a well researched document that fully support an declared that Qesis Asteray’s belief and teachings are the true EOTC Dogma and on the other hand, the so-called Immaculate Conception is not an Orthodox Dogma but a ROMAN CATHOLIC one.
The following are the Mahibere Kahinat Clergies:
• Liqe Liqawint Workineh Haile
• Komos Aba Meaza Beyene
• Liqe Meamiran Dr. Amare Kasaye
• Melake Birihan Asteraye Tisge
• Megabi Aiglaf Mekibib Atinaw
• Aba Sereke Birihan Wolde Samuel
• Liqe Hiruyan Kefelege Wolde Giorgis


• The Protocol signed in May 2008 by both the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church & Coptic Orthodox Church Patriarchs representing each Church (Holy Synods) respectively to affirm the Oneness of the two churches.
• The facts that the Patriarch wrote a book that said the Blessed Virgin Mary was born with Original Sin and reject the Immaculate Conception as A ROMAN CATHOLIC DOGMA.

I can go on and on, however, for you to say Aba Paulos and Holy Synod are different” is a very weak argument. Because,
1. Whatever Aba Paulos has been doing for the last 17+ years was approved at least by the majority of the Holy Synod. Of course this does not necessarily mean that there were no descents.
2. Until recently, the Holy Synod members did not raise any objection officially in public regarding the Patriarch.
3. For Instance, Members of the Holy Synod that gave interview to VOA recently complain how the Patriarch was ill serving the Church for the last 17+ years. WHAT A SHAME. What were they doing for those entire years with out standing up to protect and defend the church? That is their number one job to do.
4. The fact that, both the Patriarch and the Holy Synod members insisting and begging for the government to involve and meddle in the church affair, rather than committing themselves in fasting and praying for the help and intervention of GOD explains that, both are the front and back side of the same coin.
5. Both the Patriarch and the Holy Synod gave no explanation or TIME TO address the IMPORTANT doctrinal issue (complaint) that was sent to them. However, they bicker with in themselves in public with earthly issue.

Because of this and more, you can not separate the Patriarch and the Holy Synod. I personally accuse and label the Patriarch as a HYPOCRITE for not standing up for the truth that he wrote and for the Doctrine that he believes in, in regards to the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION. His defining silence on the matter, while a true and learned clergy of the church is persecuted, is criminal and unorthodox. On the other hand, some of the members of the Holy Synod who accuse others for being a heretic regarding the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION while turning a blind eye to the fact that the Patriarch himself believes in the same doctrine also make them a HYPOCRITE.

Thank you,

Anonymous said...

by the way One,Saint,Apostolic and Cathilic(universal) Church was first declared in the Creed in 381 when Orthodox and Catholics Churches were not divided in the Council of Constantinople.Therefore,based on Zoma explanation,we are one with Catholics.Now Catholics went out from One Church with Eastern Orthodox Churches.If The Oriental Churches add this kind of heretique and others,they can go out.By the way,Zoma('Qesis'Asteraye,you had said that The Ethiopian Holy Synod didn't give the answer and went to Egytians but now you are saying,we have best answer from the Holy Synod.It is contradictory.Abba Paulos,first He has written but now silence,as I understood,he learns his mistake from the point of view of Ethiopan Dogma and Liqawunt(Aleqa Ayalew) since he stayed foreign countries he might forget it.For better understanding,please read the dogmatic writing of Merigeta Gebre SEllasse at least three times,You can see your heretic.I think you didnit read thoroughly.Enough is enough.Nowadays,the Oriental and other Churches are in great change in their religion and life style which endangers their Dogma

Anonymous said...

DL: What is all this argument?and why now? Because:
It is prophesied that towards the end of the world the spirit of the pseudo messiah,as clearly explained in revelation officially becomes the enemy of the holy Virgin Mary and controls the minds of many to insult saints of whom Virgin Mary is the at most one.
The assertion that the holy Virgin Mary had the sin of Adam emanates from the very teaching that Christ is human like us and intercede us with His father, God the Father,which is the teaching of the pseudo messiah.This heretic belief destroys the whole teachings of incarnation in that it connotes we are saved with the blood of human who was sinner but cleansed during announciation.This a similar way of saying that Jesus was not God when He was born,but annointed at the time of baptism.
God the son become human from the holy Virgin Mary who maintains the pure flush of Adam before he committed sin!And God become human having that flush,which was the hope of Adam God gave him when he evicted him from Aden.As prophet Isaiah says "Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant,we should have been as Sodom,and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.Isaiah 1:9
That remnant is Virgin Mary.'Antsiho sigaha haydere laileha' When? Saint Gabreal during announciation praised Mary saying:'...hail,thou that art highly favoured,the Lord is with thee:blessed art thou among women.' There is no word of cleansing here.It is all praise,because She is clean from any sin.
Not only this, this wrong assertion makes God's choice of Her random.According to this logical explanation,which is not spiritual, it can also be meant that he could clean anybody but luckly she became the one.It also nullifies the prophecies that were told about Her for centuries before Her birth.So, in short, this incorrect belief needs to be corrected.We should not worry what the Egyptians say but we believe the correct teaching of our fathers.This wrong assertion is so often reflected by those people who at one time for one or another reason went to Egypt.I think going somewhere before knowing their own belief very well is the main problem for the manifestation of such irratic teachings.
God bless us all
May our Mother the holy Virgin Mary intercede us to Her Son,Amen.

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የአቡነ ጳውሎስ "ሐውልተ ስምዕ"

ነጻ ፓትርያርክ ምርጫ ቢሆን ኖሮ ማንን ይመርጡ ነበር? እንበልና ሁሉም ነገር ሥርዓቱን ጠብቆ የተከናወነ የእጩዎች ምርጫ ቢሆን ኖሮ፣ አሁን የምናነሣቸው ጉድለቶች ባይኖሩ ኖሮ፣ 6ኛው ፓትርያርክ እንዲሆን የምትመርጡት ማንን ነበር? (ማሳሰቢያ፦ አሁን ያለው ክፍፍል እና የመንግሥት ተጽዕኖ ባይኖር ኖሮ ተብሎ የሚመለስ ጥያቄ ነው። የምን “ባይኖር ኖሮ ነው” የሚል አስተያየት ካለዎትም እናከብራለን።)